<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Flogging &amp; Astroturfing isn&#8217;t wrong, it&#8217;s advertising.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.1goodreason.com/blog/2008/08/19/floggingastroturfing-isnt-wrong-its-advertising/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.1goodreason.com/blog/2008/08/19/floggingastroturfing-isnt-wrong-its-advertising/</link>
	<description>Social and Digital Marketing for the New Reality</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:35:28 -0500</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: When is a flog not a flog? &#171; niff, naff n triv</title>
		<link>http://www.1goodreason.com/blog/2008/08/19/floggingastroturfing-isnt-wrong-its-advertising/comment-page-1/#comment-2080</link>
		<dc:creator>When is a flog not a flog? &#171; niff, naff n triv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 17:06:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.1goodreason.com/blog/?p=250#comment-2080</guid>
		<description>[...] Chris Keiff, 1goodreason [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Chris Keiff, 1goodreason [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chris Kieff</title>
		<link>http://www.1goodreason.com/blog/2008/08/19/floggingastroturfing-isnt-wrong-its-advertising/comment-page-1/#comment-2056</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Kieff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 13:57:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.1goodreason.com/blog/?p=250#comment-2056</guid>
		<description>Matt,

There is the third option that most brands are taking today- To Do Nothing.

That is based on fear of damaging the brand, creating animosity and alienating the influencer&#039;s in the space.

I&#039;m trying to get people off the dime and get them moving in either direction.  If we can get them to do something some of them will join the conversation.

Chris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt,</p>
<p>There is the third option that most brands are taking today- To Do Nothing.</p>
<p>That is based on fear of damaging the brand, creating animosity and alienating the influencer&#8217;s in the space.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m trying to get people off the dime and get them moving in either direction.  If we can get them to do something some of them will join the conversation.</p>
<p>Chris</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.1goodreason.com/blog/2008/08/19/floggingastroturfing-isnt-wrong-its-advertising/comment-page-1/#comment-2036</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 18:26:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.1goodreason.com/blog/?p=250#comment-2036</guid>
		<description>In my opinion, brands have two options for engaging in the conversations that social media offers.  

1. Join communities that already exist. This means starting a Facebook page (clearly an ad), a Twitter feed (not-so clearly an ad, but an ad), a MySpace page, etc. On those, be entertaining/engaging/conversational, and perhaps give away stuff if you can.   

2. The not-so easy option: start a community from scratch. McDonald&#039;s picked this one and created an Alternate Reality Game called Find the Lost Ring. &#039;Players&#039; (actors) used blogs, Twitter, Flickr, to update players on what was going on in the game. McDonald&#039;s didn&#039;t tell people that they were behind it. Someone found out. 

One would argue that this world wasn&#039;t invented to sell Big Macs, although clearly, they invented this world to sell Big Macs. The world was invented to entertain. At the end, if people were suitably entertained, they might feel more affinity to McDonalds. That might mean, next time they are hungry they buy a Big Mac. 

That said, my point is this: be entertaining and no one will care. Be boring, and people might not notice. Be boring and secretive about who you are, and people might get angry and start tiwttering about the brand.  

When engaging in a social media campaign, my advice is to copy the WWE. Yes, copy professional wrestling. Entertain, pretend to fight, but, with a wink, let people in on the game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my opinion, brands have two options for engaging in the conversations that social media offers.  </p>
<p>1. Join communities that already exist. This means starting a Facebook page (clearly an ad), a Twitter feed (not-so clearly an ad, but an ad), a MySpace page, etc. On those, be entertaining/engaging/conversational, and perhaps give away stuff if you can.   </p>
<p>2. The not-so easy option: start a community from scratch. McDonald&#8217;s picked this one and created an Alternate Reality Game called Find the Lost Ring. &#8216;Players&#8217; (actors) used blogs, Twitter, Flickr, to update players on what was going on in the game. McDonald&#8217;s didn&#8217;t tell people that they were behind it. Someone found out. </p>
<p>One would argue that this world wasn&#8217;t invented to sell Big Macs, although clearly, they invented this world to sell Big Macs. The world was invented to entertain. At the end, if people were suitably entertained, they might feel more affinity to McDonalds. That might mean, next time they are hungry they buy a Big Mac. </p>
<p>That said, my point is this: be entertaining and no one will care. Be boring, and people might not notice. Be boring and secretive about who you are, and people might get angry and start tiwttering about the brand.  </p>
<p>When engaging in a social media campaign, my advice is to copy the WWE. Yes, copy professional wrestling. Entertain, pretend to fight, but, with a wink, let people in on the game.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chris Parente</title>
		<link>http://www.1goodreason.com/blog/2008/08/19/floggingastroturfing-isnt-wrong-its-advertising/comment-page-1/#comment-2034</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Parente</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 16:23:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.1goodreason.com/blog/?p=250#comment-2034</guid>
		<description>A few comments that come to mind. My perspective comes from using 2.0 media to support public relations objectives of clients in b2b and b2g. Exec blogging, blogging relations, community development. 

1. Full disclosure, full transparency. If I mention a client in my blog, they are identified as such. If I make a comment in a blog on an issue that touches a client, I id myself. Clients write their own copy, we don&#039;t ghostwrite.
2. There are already ways to place ads in blogs
3. Deception angers people -- no epiphany there. When I was in American U program we were taught about &quot;ethical persuasion&quot; being the goal
4. Being cynical about something doesn&#039;t equate to actually knowing anything about it -- see David Letterman 
5. I just blogged about Pandora and others social networks seeming to not have a business model, but fake blogs sure aren&#039;t the answer. 

I agree with Stacy&#039;s comment above -- doing it right takes more work and time, but will bring big dividends.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few comments that come to mind. My perspective comes from using 2.0 media to support public relations objectives of clients in b2b and b2g. Exec blogging, blogging relations, community development. </p>
<p>1. Full disclosure, full transparency. If I mention a client in my blog, they are identified as such. If I make a comment in a blog on an issue that touches a client, I id myself. Clients write their own copy, we don&#8217;t ghostwrite.<br />
2. There are already ways to place ads in blogs<br />
3. Deception angers people &#8212; no epiphany there. When I was in American U program we were taught about &#8220;ethical persuasion&#8221; being the goal<br />
4. Being cynical about something doesn&#8217;t equate to actually knowing anything about it &#8212; see David Letterman<br />
5. I just blogged about Pandora and others social networks seeming to not have a business model, but fake blogs sure aren&#8217;t the answer. </p>
<p>I agree with Stacy&#8217;s comment above &#8212; doing it right takes more work and time, but will bring big dividends.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kerry Gaffney</title>
		<link>http://www.1goodreason.com/blog/2008/08/19/floggingastroturfing-isnt-wrong-its-advertising/comment-page-1/#comment-2033</link>
		<dc:creator>Kerry Gaffney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 16:08:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.1goodreason.com/blog/?p=250#comment-2033</guid>
		<description>Chris,

Forgive me for being a cynical brit here but are adverstisers also trying to get a little of my cash as well as my attention?  I can&#039;t really see the difference between faking and decieving tbh</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris,</p>
<p>Forgive me for being a cynical brit here but are adverstisers also trying to get a little of my cash as well as my attention?  I can&#8217;t really see the difference between faking and decieving tbh</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chris Kieff</title>
		<link>http://www.1goodreason.com/blog/2008/08/19/floggingastroturfing-isnt-wrong-its-advertising/comment-page-1/#comment-2032</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Kieff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 16:08:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.1goodreason.com/blog/?p=250#comment-2032</guid>
		<description>Jim,

Upon further reflection- I think that marketers today would want to signal their intentions, to avoid the knee jerk reaction they get for flogging now.

Perhaps in a few years after the defenses are constructed the signals will go away...
Chris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim,</p>
<p>Upon further reflection- I think that marketers today would want to signal their intentions, to avoid the knee jerk reaction they get for flogging now.</p>
<p>Perhaps in a few years after the defenses are constructed the signals will go away&#8230;<br />
Chris</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chris Kieff</title>
		<link>http://www.1goodreason.com/blog/2008/08/19/floggingastroturfing-isnt-wrong-its-advertising/comment-page-1/#comment-2031</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Kieff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 16:00:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.1goodreason.com/blog/?p=250#comment-2031</guid>
		<description>Ken,

I don&#039;t think it&#039;s going to be possible to teach people how to tell fake from real.  There are too many talented people in Advertising who are trying to too hard, with too much money to spend on it.

Chris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken,</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s going to be possible to teach people how to tell fake from real.  There are too many talented people in Advertising who are trying to too hard, with too much money to spend on it.</p>
<p>Chris</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jim McGee</title>
		<link>http://www.1goodreason.com/blog/2008/08/19/floggingastroturfing-isnt-wrong-its-advertising/comment-page-1/#comment-2030</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim McGee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:58:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.1goodreason.com/blog/?p=250#comment-2030</guid>
		<description>Perhaps it is my cynicism getting the best of me. You seem to assume that marketers would want to signal that they are advertising and marketing to you. I&#039;m not so confident. Sure, I&#039;d be happy if I had more reliable clues/cues to differentiate flogs/blogs and astroturf/grassroots.  I would contend that flogs/astroturf are designed intentionally to mislead (as were infomercials in their earlier days).  If we somehow regulate/self-regulate, shortly thereafter we will see the next round of efforts to get past my defenses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps it is my cynicism getting the best of me. You seem to assume that marketers would want to signal that they are advertising and marketing to you. I&#8217;m not so confident. Sure, I&#8217;d be happy if I had more reliable clues/cues to differentiate flogs/blogs and astroturf/grassroots.  I would contend that flogs/astroturf are designed intentionally to mislead (as were infomercials in their earlier days).  If we somehow regulate/self-regulate, shortly thereafter we will see the next round of efforts to get past my defenses.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chris Kieff</title>
		<link>http://www.1goodreason.com/blog/2008/08/19/floggingastroturfing-isnt-wrong-its-advertising/comment-page-1/#comment-2029</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Kieff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:56:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.1goodreason.com/blog/?p=250#comment-2029</guid>
		<description>Kerry,

You&#039;ve hit the nail on the head.  The problem as I see it is how to tell a faker (advertiser) from a deceiver.  

A deceiver as ill intent- to trick you into doing something.  Where a faker (advertiser) just wants to get a little of your attention.

Chris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kerry,</p>
<p>You&#8217;ve hit the nail on the head.  The problem as I see it is how to tell a faker (advertiser) from a deceiver.  </p>
<p>A deceiver as ill intent- to trick you into doing something.  Where a faker (advertiser) just wants to get a little of your attention.</p>
<p>Chris</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kerry Gaffney</title>
		<link>http://www.1goodreason.com/blog/2008/08/19/floggingastroturfing-isnt-wrong-its-advertising/comment-page-1/#comment-2028</link>
		<dc:creator>Kerry Gaffney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:40:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.1goodreason.com/blog/?p=250#comment-2028</guid>
		<description>@Chris

I agree that there is nothing wrong with bring to people&#039;s attention good products and every company has the right to advertise.

And your wife is right too, flogs and astroturfing are just forms of advertising but they are unscrupulous forms that rely on the fact that people don&#039;t think they are advertising to increase their impact. 

That is why its not the job of social mavens to &quot;help the industry develop the mechanisms that can indicate to the casual observer “Hey this blog comment- this twitter message is really an ad!”.  It&#039;s their job to help educate readers so that they can tell a flog or fake poster for themselves and to call shenanigans whenever they see it in practice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Chris</p>
<p>I agree that there is nothing wrong with bring to people&#8217;s attention good products and every company has the right to advertise.</p>
<p>And your wife is right too, flogs and astroturfing are just forms of advertising but they are unscrupulous forms that rely on the fact that people don&#8217;t think they are advertising to increase their impact. </p>
<p>That is why its not the job of social mavens to &#8220;help the industry develop the mechanisms that can indicate to the casual observer “Hey this blog comment- this twitter message is really an ad!”.  It&#8217;s their job to help educate readers so that they can tell a flog or fake poster for themselves and to call shenanigans whenever they see it in practice.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
